I took the bus to a shop today with the new master cylinder in hand. Bum friends have lent us a car for our stay in town, so Ali and the kids got to do some running around while I did that, which was certainly a welcome change from our other trips to the shop.
The mechanics agreed that the problem (a soft pedal) sounded like it was probably the master cylinder, and since that’s not a very difficult job they got right to it. An hour later the new master was on and they were busy bleeding the brake lines. And bleeding the brake lines. And bleeding the brake lines. (And to head off the comments, yes, they bench bled the new unit before installing it.) The pedal wouldn’t firm up. Everyone was perplexed until the mechanic took off the brake line, stuck his finger on the hole and had the other guy pump the pedal. There was about two pounds of pressure. Nothing. The brand new NAPA master cylinder was garbage. He took it off and put it in a vice on the bench and tested it there. Same thing. Junk. F’ing NAPA.
He told me that after taking the old one off he really didn’t think it was bad. He cleaned it out good, bled it, put it on the bench and showed me how a master cylinder should work. He pressed the piston in while the other guy held his finger over the hole for the brake line. Fluid blew past his finger and all over the shop. It was good.
So they put it back on, bled the lines again, and still got a soft brake pedal that required two or three pumps to firm up. I took it for a drive to confirm. Bummer, but no surprise.
We were all pretty much out of ideas. I was laying under the bus next to the mechanic and we were just sort of looking at everything and talking through the possibilities, none of which really made any sense. Finally he decided to try bleeding just one more time for the hell of it. He bled the first wheel, and then the brake shoe adjustment slot caught his eye. He grabbed a screwdriver and started spinning the little wheel that tightens up the brake shoes. He turned and turned and turned, and I could see he was feeling a glimmer of hope. He went to the other side and did the same thing. Both sides took way more adjustment than is normal (especially considering, I believe, that these should be self-adjusting). He finished that up, smiled, and said, “Take it for a drive.”
Success.
Now why didn’t anybody ever guess that was the problem?
So basically I was having to pump and pump to get the shoes to reach the drum. And this nicely ties up all the problems in one. The front driver’s cylinder blew because it was basically stopping the entire bus alone. The locking up was caused by the same thing—when that front wheel was stopping the whole bus it was heating up and when we’d stop it would expand and lock the wheel for a couple of minutes. With the front shoes and cylinders replaced the locking up was solved, but not the soft pedal. Now the rear brake shoe adjustment has solved that.
I would have replaced the rears as well, but so far I haven’t been able to source any. Good old NAPA couldn’t track them down and say there must not be any available. I’ll have to get them resleeved apparently. I got the cylinders, but shoes will have to wait. And yeah, the NAPA manager was none too happy about taking the dirty master cylinder back. But he did.
Anyway, I’ve had about enough brake talk for a year or two.
In other news, the kids got haircuts and nobody cried.
And Lowe broke his bike yet again. I cried, but he didn’t. He switched seamlessly to the scooter. He’s an animal.
Oh, when I pulled up to the shop today I spotted this across the street.
I went over and met the owner who had already spotted our bus as well. His turned out to be a bit of a Franken-bus, but still very much a Travco at heart. It’s two ’69 Travcos pieced together to form a 32′ body which was then mounted on a nearly new RV chassis. I showed him around our bus and then sprung a question on him.
When I’d been over at his place we’d gone inside where I discovered that this wasn’t a house, but a full-on carpentry/cabinet-making shop. Back when I was building out our bus I’d had to make our kitchen table with no seats inside. The result was a table that was about four inches too big. If we were ten pounds overweight we wouldn’t have been able to sit and have a meal. Anyway, I asked if we could bring the table over to his shop and shave a few inches. Man, what a difference the right tools make. He whipped it out in no time at all and even finished it off with trim around the edge. He got a good chuckle out of my story of having done the entire interior of our bus with nothing but a jigsaw, a circular saw, and two plastic clamps. So that was my serendipitous encounter for the day.
Yesterday during our running around we visited the Old Town Plaza, a big nearby park, and made a quick visit to Petroglyphs National Monument.
54 Comments on “We Were All Wrong”
What do you mean we were all wrong? You drove a VW bus for 60K miles 1/2 way around the world so we all assumed that you knew everything there was to know about self-adjusters that don’t self-adjust 🙂 🙂 🙂
Remember those brakes were brand new to start, and we had the disc conversion on the front. I still don’t really know what self-adjusters are.
I guess everyone has forgotten old brake pad technology? Hard to believe the mechanics did not adjust the pads after installing them.
The self-adjusters operate when you apply the brakes while in reverse motion, the theory being every time you back up and stop it tightens them up to proper tension. To adjust it intentionally you can back up and apply brakes firmly, repeat any number of times necessary.
You gotta boycott NAPA!
Pat,
I know that you don’t want to talk about brakes for the next couple of years but is the brake switch working now that you have cleaned the master cylinder? (The World would like to know).
Next stupid question: can you repurpose whatever you ripped off the kitchen table and fill the missing piece of floor below the brake pedal?
I don’t know yet, haven’t even looked. It’s on the list for tomorrow before we take off again.
Awww I know just how you feel about bad days, I have certainly
Had my fair share as we’ll the other day my old bushbashing jeep
Broke down at mcdonalds and I had to walk a mile to a shopping centre
To catch a bus, but I caught up with an awesome family at the bus stop and
Made some new friends, nevertheless it was a nice bus trip home backwards.
Trent.
Relieved to learn the brakes are working now! The rear wheel cylinders may be hard to find, but are probably available with searching: But sleeving them is probably a better long term solution, though may be pricey & the bus may need to be apart for more than a day while yours get sleeved. I believe the sleeves are made of brass or stainless steel, so less of a corrosion problem from the hygroscopic properties of brake fluid.
And while the rear brake drums are off, the rear self adjusters can be cleaned & lubed. Because my RV sat idle about 11 months of each year, I had to do that self-adjuster cleaning about each 6 years, as normal maintenance.
If your Travco has a driveshaft center support being, I hope that it has been replaced in the last 10-15 years.
TIL: Make sure brakes are braking evenly.
TIL what the heck TIL stands for.
TIL – Today I Learned. Sorrt, I think I’m spending too much time on Reddit.
http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/
Sorrt = Sorry
I was in Santa Fe a couple weeks ago and saw a Travco for sale. My husband was impressed with my ability to identify vintage RVs 🙂
See, reading Bumfuzzle isn’t a total time waster.
Glad you got your brake mystery solved. Maybe you can find rear wheel cylinders in Mexico. I did our front brakes down there and the local auto parts in a small town actually had our front pads in stock! Of course our motorhome is a little newer (1995) but I was still surprised. Turned out that they’re the same ones as used on some local buses in the area we were in.
Ha! Sometimes you gotta just keep on keeping on until the (un)obvious catches your eye!! Good on ya mate!
(And I’m glad it happens to other people too…!!)
I am an old car aficionado and have found that O Riellys Auto parts is often more responsive than any other auto parts facility….I have been able to find parts for virtually every conceivable need….perhaps it is just the store I use but I have never failed to find a part and often I will have it the next day if it is obscure…..
Pat, why do yo go back to NAPA? They have sold you how many crappy brake light switches and now a bad master cylinder?
Because they are the only ones who ever have what I need. And because as you drive through any small town anywhere in the US there will be a NAPA. If I were sitting at home with the bus in the garage I’d happily take my business elsewhere.
NAPA does not surprise me. My sister was a comptroller for the old Dana Corp for over forty years. They brought over a bus full of Chinese, taught them how to make the parts. Then promptly shipped the entire plant to China and laid off all the production employees. She lasted for six more months (they warehoused the China crap for six months) before it was her turn. Her reason for staying so long? None of the new import parts were to spec ie she had to handle returns from their irate customers. She hears the returns are still about 50%.
Congrat’s on getting the brakes sorted out, you’re right never would have guess it was an adjustment, I guess I’ve been around disc brakes to long!
That’s what NAPA does….they hone the goodness out of everything. I bought a master cylinder from them 30 years ago that worked great in the summer. Come about December in Alaska at 20 below zero, the rubber piston cups contracted to the point that the brake pedal went clear to the floor…out of warranty. NAPA gets my money for hoses, wipers, fluids, belts etc. and consumables. And then only as a last resort.
I like O’Reielly and Car Quest.
Lastly I will wager that 99.9% of the people who made suggestions assumed that the most important thing, (manually adjusting the brakes, a very basic initial requirement/check of any brake service) had been done.
The main point is now you can drive down hill safely without scaring the heck out of your fans.
I’ll feel better knowing this problem is solved if you ever drive west out of Yosemite to Lee Vining, CA.:)
Oh,
PS Cats like mice, I think the kids would love one 🙂
Heh . . . now there’s a plan. And I just heard on the local NPR station here in Tucson that there’s a pet adoption event in town this weekend. They’re waiving normal adoption fees and (wait for it) . . . kittens are two for the price of one!
Would you like me to pick up a couple for you, Ali? I’m sure I could even get four kittens if you’d each like your own. You can pick them up from me as you come through Arizona before you head down into Mexico. 😉
TJ
Not even an inkling of a chance of that happening.
Uh-oh . . . does anybody need four kittens? Will deliver . . . anyone . . .
My experience with NAPA stores has been pretty good; but again it depends on the franchise owner. And NAPA is one of the few nationwide outlets I have found that carries listings for trucks over 3/4 ton and over 30 years old. The listings arent usually in their computers; you have to make them drag out the hard copy books. I like O’Reillys and Carquest to get parts for my vehicles that are only 20-25 years old.
At petroglyph they should offer a battery operated dremmel tool and a six pack for a small fee. A Bumfuzzle petro of the travco would have made a great addition to the art!
Sure would have been better than the can of spray paint we brought along.
LOL…cute.
How could you not feel the vehicle pulling to one side when the brake pedal was depressed?
All that work and the brakes were never adjusted? Tsk Tsk.
The first thing I do with every new to me vehicle is pull the wheels and check the brakes and adjust ( if necessary) the shoes. On the every first drive before I buy it even, I let go of the steering wheel and press hard on the brakes looking to see how the vehicle responds. I know it runs but I need it to stop also.
Are you tsk tsk-ing me? I’m happy that you know a lot about cars and brakes. I don’t. But I do learn. It sometimes takes a while, but I do eventually learn.
The first thing I do when I’m about to buy a short-term out-of-the-money call option is check the implied volatility. Just in case anybody is wondering.
The first thing I do when I’m about to buy a short-term out of the money call option is lie down until the fit passes. 🙂
Pat, The beauty of a blog is that you can find out what a complete and utter tool you are and just how on top of everything many of your readers are. I swear, it’s enough to make a guy give up blogging. But please don’t.
True enough. I try to remind myself sometimes that 99% of people couldn’t explain the difference between a call and a put option, or a futures contract versus a share of stock. After all these years doing new-to-me things I feel like I’m a pretty well rounded man. And after days like this I feel a sense of accomplishment because I learned something new. From age forty until the day I die I’ll always know to check the brake shoe adjustments. I certainly never feel any shame for not knowing something. To me that’d be like shaming my kids for not knowing how to multiply 3 by 3 before they even know how to add.
After all the hands and eyes that’ve been on those brakes over the past few weeks, nobody else bothered to check the adjustment either, so I think you’re good, Pat. In fact, the guy who finally found the problem was probably just as surprised himself to discover they’d never been adjusted by any of the other “mechanics” who had taken a stab at the brake problem, so I’ll bet he’s told guys he works with to be sure to check the adjustment now when they’re working on brakes.
Hello Pat & Ali. Speaking of serendipity… I stumbled across your blog by accident when I googled a word (bumfuzzle) that I heard on an advert. I have always dreamed of sailing (well, the dream would actually be a Nordhavn N86, hardly sailing) so I was hooked on the blog from the start. I’ve read almost all of it from the beginning and am quite dismayed now that I’ve reached the current day (for now).
I bought your book ‘Live on the Margin’ and have since read it (options are still alien to me!) and started a trading account. I have limited means so elected to trade CFDs on a platform called Plus500. I threw a couple of hundred quid in and got to it about 3 weeks ago. I lost some money. It was my fault. I traded for the sake of trading. I’m happy to tell you now though that I have since trebled the account and am pretty happy about it. It’ll seem like insignificant sums to most, but it’s a start.
I guess what this rather long post is about really is that I want to say thanks. I know this blog is more your personal account of your family and travels that people happen to read, but it has had a positive effect on my life (at the risk of sounding melodramatic). It’s made me realize what I want, and that what I want is achievable. Maybe not this year, maybe not next, but sooner than I might have thought.
To anyone else reading this, buy the book. I can’t recommend it highly enough.
So… Thanks again… Keep living the dream.
Tery.
Thanks for the nice comment Tery, we appreciate it. It’s always nice to hear when we’ve had a positive effect. Congrats on getting your feet wet in the markets. You can’t really learn until there is real money on the line, no matter what that amount is. Please do be careful trading CFDs though. I’m not a big fan of the platform, but I certainly do see the appeal for those with limited trading funds.
And hey, go with the N50, you don’t need crew for that one. 🙂
“Adjust the brakes”? Oh my, I thought that would have been the first thing to check? Too bad about the defective master cylinder, the old one probably has a few miles on it? As my wife reminded me, a long time ago, “See if there is fuel in the tank before you rip the engine out” 🙂
It was my experience that if you had to pump the brakes and the pedal stayed up, there was air in the lines or the shoes were traveling too far. After pumping, if the pedal slowly went down, it was a leaky master cylinder, both fairly easy fixes.
Paul T
Glad to hear you got it sorted. RE: Brake switch, I’m sure you guys have seen this – but just in case: http://1966travco270.blogspot.com/2009/11/brake-light-switch-replacement.html – Sounds like CarQuest does / used to carry a hydraulic switch replacement?
On a side note … I started reading the blog start to finish a few weeks ago (up to mid-2006 so far), sometimes out loud to my wife and 8 month old daughter. You’re our type of people. We’ve had a few multi-month adventures (one in a VW Vanagon Westy) and mini-retirements without realizing it, and are keen to get back out there. Thanks for being a catalyst for us.
If you ever find yourselves in FarNorCal give us a shout, would be a pleasure to share a beer.
As bad as Napa is, it’s still better than Pep Boys or Auto Zone. Brakes are overrated anyway. Stopping is for wimops. Adventerous people just go!
Whimps, that is. I don’t know what a wimop is.
It really is best to just stay on the gas and hold on. If it works in our ’65 Porsche I don’t see why it won’t in the ’66 Dodge.
Pat,
This could be my favorite blog entry ever….I think a beer is in order for you and Ali tonight. Really happy to hear you got this one figured out.
Be safe guys.
Danno
This was a Maker’s Mark night. 🙂
Even better!
My man.
I recently had your blog up on my laptop and my 3 year old granddaughter wondered who those kiddos were on the screen. She now insists every week when I babysit for the day, Mammaw, get my new friends on your computer so I can see what they are doing today – so cute! Just so you know, you’ve got friends in Pennsylvania! Bless you all and enjoy each and everyday!
Glad to hear the brake mystery is solved before one of us suggested an anchor on the stern!
I’m glad the brake stuff is over…. EVEN though I learned something I don’t give a crap about.. I will remember this if we buy some really old RV….lol All kidding aside, I love your blog and look forward to your adventures everyday…..
Thankfully you weren’t trying to ride through the mountains with these brake issues. I was in Albuquerque one time and as a Florida driver I had no clue at the time (19 years old) how to use downshifting and in general how to drive hilly country so I went up to the top of Sandia Peak and on my drive down my Datsun damn near lost all braking and I jumped into an emergency “runaway truck” thingy and let them cool down a bit and almost did the same thing again before I reached bottom….I have since learned how the world works but driving a large bus like that would be challenging on that braking system. Keep up the adventures! Lovely pictures as always.
glad to hear you got it sorted! makes total sense now. thanks for sharing the solution. keep on truckin!
Good deal, glad you got it solved.
Just remember, when you get to be our age you don’t go to Napa, you take a napa.
Man, those NAPA parts are pretty much worthless, which is a bummer because they’re so easy to find.
As I read your tales of NAPA woe over the past few weeks, it finally dawned on me about the brand new NAPA parts on my daughter’s car, which failed repeatedly during her recent cross-country road trip.
Of course, NAPA is true to their warranty, so they replaced parts — all of which failed immediately — at three different shops between Dixie and the west coast. My daughter finally rented a U-Haul truck and auto hauler to complete the journey after being able to only make about 230 miles in four days.
Our west coast mechanic replaced all the brand new worthless NAPA parts(about $2000 worth of junk) with non-NAPA stuff, and now the car is running like a new puppy.
I’m happy that you’ve solved the brake issues. I think the lesson here is to avoid NAPA parts unless your desire is to simply act as a conduit from the auto parts store to the dump.
I love a happy ending!